I hope that gets someone's attention I have a situation with my middle daughter and I'm not sure how to deal with it. She has not been diagnosed as "special needs", but as I mentioned in another thread, I feel sure she would be labelled ADD or ADHD if I were to have her tested. She also does have a slight hearing loss, altho' the doctor said it wasn't enough that we would ever notice it (I didn't agree, since we only had her hearing tested because we did notice that something wasn't quite right). Anyway, I don't think the hearing thing has anything to do with this. She just drives me crazy some days!! She's not doing anything "bad" or "wrong" necessarily. She is highly distractable, constantly in motion and making noise (talking, tapping her feet, just general noise). Her attention span seems to be about 3 seconds long sometimes. And, to complicate things, her learning style is SO different than mine or anyone else I have ever known, I can't figure out how her mind works sometimes! Ex.: Today we were doing math. Not her favorite subject. She's doing division, something like 4 digits divided by 2 digits. Pretty simple stuff for 7th grade. But she refuses to use the standard method of working the problem. She has her own method, and it does work (usually), but it takes her forever to do a problem and she'll use up an entire sheet of scrap paper for one problem. Today we worked together on math for about 30-45 minutes. She did three problems. By then her brain was "tired of math" so she hasn't done any since. If it took me 45 minutes to do 3 problems I'd be tired of math, too! But I can't get her to see that "her method" is really making it harder, not easier. Basically, her method is to just add repeatedly to avoid having to multiply. That's not so bad with single- and double-digits, but when you get up to the thousands it just isn't very practicle. But I don't know how to get this across to her. She's convinced that "her method" is better for her. Since she does get the right answer, it's very hard to convince her otherwise.

That's just one example. There are dozens throughout the day. If she were my only child it would be challenging, but I have three more to teach so I can't give her my undivided attention. But if I don't, every time I go to do something else, she's off in la-la land somewhere. In about 4 hours today she's done 3 math problems, read two short chapters in history, and picked up her science book (but done nothing in it).

Any ideas?

Lori

That is a hard one. I had a son who used to take an hour to do six problems (two digit times two digit multiplication) and it made me crazy. He would NOT do it the way I was trying to teach him, and his way made NO sense to me. But by golly, his answers were right almost every time.

Turns out he had a visual processing disorder and had trouble making sense of numbers on paper. When I figured that out, I would read the problems to him and he would do them in his head and still get them right. We evolved to the point that I would read the problems into a tape player at my convenience and he would work them in his head and write down his answers. He frequently would transpose numbers when writing them down, but otherwise, did his own version of multiplication and continues to this day. It didn't hurt him when he took advanced math or in his everyday experiences with math. He's now 26. I still don't understand how he multiplies, but he's still getting the right answer.

Is there something that lights your daughter up? Is she just crazy about horses, for example? Maybe you could design her a study on her special topic? Some 7th graders are able to work independently and some aren't, but I find all mine are more self-motivated if the topic is their heart's desire and not the next thing in the textbook.

And I know this is terribly frightening, especially when it comes to math. I was taught that math is sequential (and to some degree it is) and MUST be learned that way. But my own childrens' experiences I am seeing math as being included in all of our life learning, not something I need to teach as its own subject at all.

Anji,
Thanks for your input. It's encouraging to hear of someone else who does math his own way and it hasn't hurt him. I think that's part of why I struggle with this. I don't know anyone else who does this (it doesn't help that I'm not even sure what "it" is that she's doing) so I have this nagging fear that somewhere along the way it's going to hurt her. But by then I'm afraid it will be too late to help her. Maybe I'm worried for nothing. She does tend to like to work the problems in her head. She was doing that today and I asked her to tell me what she was thinking. I wanted to try to understand how she was working the problem. So then she worked it out on a whiteboard and showed me -- and I still don't completely understand! I basically see what she's doing, and it seems like a lot more work than doing it the conventional way, but for the life of me I can't see how she kept all of that straight in her head! I may try more letting her work the problems in her head and just tell me the answers. Maybe "her way" will get faster as she goes along.

It kind of reminds me of when she was younger, maybe 3rd or 4th grade. My son was doing his pre-algebra and she was in the room, but not listening in (or so I thought). I was explaining something to him and read a problem outloud, then asked him to work it. Before he could say anything she blurted out the answer, and she was right! It baffled me then that she could do his pre-algebra but was barely passing her own math. Hmmmm...maybe it was because I was expecting her to write her answers down, but she just heard his problem and worked it out her way, in her head. That's something to think about!

Thanks, again, for your help.
Lori

Lori,
Your daughter could be so advanced in her math processing that it WOULD look different to us! How does she do with other subjects? Does she have anything that she likes to focus on - or is this a broad spectrum issue?
Christine

Christine,
It isn't just math. She just thinks differently than most of us do. I see a lot of this in my son, too, but unfortunately I didn't recognize it the same way until he was much older. I thought he was just being difficult! Neither of them does that well in school subjects (grade wise) but they are both very intelligent. It's just not "school smart" if that makes any sense. Both are very good with computers and have taught themselves web publishing, graphic design, and all sorts of other things. In fact, they seem to learn best by self-teaching. It's when I try to teach them something that we have problems. But in order for the self-teaching to take place, they have to see a reason for it, and neither of them sees much purpose in math. My daughter is a little more willing for me to teach her, but I'm finding that the more I try to force her to do it "my way" the more problems we have. I just don't understand what "her way" is enough to help her learn new material that way. I go back to being afraid that at some point, her way won't work, but then I won't know what she's doing enough to be able to help her.

She's very creative, and comes up with some pretty amazing things when left to herself. I think I'm struggling to find the balance between letting her be herself, but still make sure she learns the things that she needs to learn, even when she doesn't see a reason for them.
Lori

Hi, I am Alida, and new to the board, but not new to homschooling. We made the decision to homeschool way back in 1985, when it was scarcely heard of. We schooled two "normal" children, and then two with learning disabilities and special needs. I am still working with the youngest, who is now 13. We adopted him and he has FAS.
Every year again we hear from well-meaning friends to put him in school, and every year again we go through the process of deciding what to teach, and for what reason. With the older two the main goal was to teach them to learn, and they have, both girls going on to college after their homeschool years. The goal for the other two is to teach them lifeskills. This includes basic math for our FAS boy, and learning to use a calculator for the other one, but not algebra or philosophy. My point is, as homeschoolers we often try to play school at home, but that is not the purpose. You've noticed the different learning styles from your children, work with it! That's how God made them, and He blessed them with homeschooling parents! Be creative.
God bless you.

Dear Alida,
Welcome and AMEN to your comments! I weep every time I recall how often I have tried to shove my children into the box I felt they should be in at particular times in their development. How much sweeter our home life would be if we could learn to love and nurture them where they are!
Let us hear more from you. Can you share some teaching tips you've used?
Blessings,
Christine

Hi Lori - My 11 year old son is so similar. I know some people don't believe ADHD is a legit diagnosis, but I'm a believer. Math is also more difficult for him and he will do processes more difficult as well. Example is when he is subtracting something, he uses his fingers but counts backwards from what is the simplist. I can't even explain what it is he does. But often he counts wrong or something and ends up one digit off then argues with me that the answer book is wrong. He takes an hour to eat. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say I am SO GLAD he is my last child at home. What should take 3 hours to finish his school day takes 7 to 8 hours if it gets done in a day at all. I did institute a 50 cent credit for every day that everything gets done and it has helped. He can then use that credit when we go to the store if he wants to buy something.

Nancy,
Thanks for the reply. I like the idea of giving a 50 cent credit for completing the day's work. I'll have to consider that for next year. I'm sure my other two would want the same deal, and altho' they don't need it (they hate to NOT finish) it would be worth it if it helped things go more smoothly. Ana's biggest struggle this past year was just getting the work done! What she did, she did fairly well. She just didn't do very much. Some days she'd get through one subject, or maybe two. Occasionally she'd have a very good day and get a little bit of each subject done, but NEVER did she do an entire day's work in one school day. Consequently she's starting 8th grade playing catch up. Next year she must get more work done, or she won't be ready for high school the following year. I think that in itself will motivate her to some extent, but I also think she'll need a more immediate motivation, so maybe the daily incentive would work. Thanks for the tip!
Lori

The best thing that we have done was to determine what calmed him and enticed him enough to focus. Instead of doing math first, it actually works best for him to do his spelling practice first using his computer program. Unlike most computer games, Super Spellbounder isn't so animated it overstimulates him. AFter he has done that for a half hour or so, he does MUCH better the rest of the day on his other subjects - especially the rest of the morning. But anytime the schedule gets messed up, especially first thing in the day, we're usually off the rest of the day. That's what happened to us today. Really got nothing completely done at all.

Your daughter sounds a lot like my son. Seems some days it is one long battle.

quote:

But anytime the schedule gets messed up, especially first thing in the day, we're usually off the rest of the day.

That is SO true! If we can start the day on schedule, things go much better. But once we get off track, everything goes downhill from there.
Lori

Hi Nancy in Iowa,
I can't believe I haven't greeted you! Welcome!
Tell us about the challenges you face and tell us more about what you do to help your son.
Blessings,
Christine

I wish I had more insight to give. We just muddle through. I, unfortunately, spend too much time being critical in my efforts to keep him on task and not let him procrastinate and simply not do what he is supposed to do. I don't know where that line is between the two ends of the spectrum. So I will keep watching to see if others have any suggestions that I could use in our situation as well.

Hi Nancy,
I can relate to muddling! Feels like that on many days.
I was thinking about how God treats children-gently, always drawing them near-and remembering how harsh I used to be with my daughter. It makes me weep now. Rather than loving her AS IS, I unintentionally made her feel bad about how God made her.
I'm now a lot more gentle with all the kids. But, we still keep on a schedule! It just eliminates a lot of arguing.
Blessings to you,
Christine

I do love him "as is", but he has to learn to be more responsible. I have a girlfriend who thinks I allow him too much leeway, but she's not in my shoes trying to teach him 24/7. I was gone on Thursday and Friday of last week and she was to pick him up from ar sitter's house (without a car) to take him to swimming lessons. Apparently he put his "diabetic bag" that he has to take everywhere with him in the back of her van. He got back to the sitter's house amd they sat down to eat lunch and he had left his bag in the van. She had to make another trip (about 7 miles) to bring his bag back and then told the sitter she wouldn't take him on Friday, he needed to miss his swimming lesson to teach him responsbilitly. My husband loaned the sitter our van (which he normally would not do) the next day and the sitter took him and brought him home from the swimming lesson.

He is 11 years old. Interestingly, his 9 year old natural sister (ds is adopted) has now been diagnosed with ADHD and a half sister age 4-5 with bipolar (which is what their in-common mother was diagnosed with as well).

So - Did the friend over-react? Should we have considered her position as a legit choice?

This is that fine line I was talking about - too easy and he never learns, too strict and I'm being critical all the time. So where is the middle ground here? He is often grounded for something or other already. (Grounding meaning no TV or for repetitive, no TV and no computer. We live in the country so he doesn't go anywhere without us anyway.)

Hi Nancy,
So glad you wrote again! We have a lot in common. We have four kids, 3 of whom are adopted. That raises all kinds of issues, some of which we have recently gone through in the teen years. Our LD/ADHD daughter is also adopted (from Korea).
Tell me more about how your family came to be. I love a great family story!
Blessings,
Christine

Hi Christine - I first started this out by saying our story is much more ordinary, but by the time I got done, I realized it is far from ordinary either.

My first three sons were all natural and are all grown, though my third (now 26) found out just this last year he has a previously unknown birth defect. He has no vas deferens. (You'll have to look it up, won't explain here). He also is a cystic fibrosis carrier, but doesn't have the disease himself. I suspect that came through from my father's line because a 3rd cousin died from cystic fibrosis in his late teens. This son also has ADHD and was able to get in the Air Force only because he refused to take his prescribed medication in high school.

My first son is exactly the opposite - HYPO-active (I know, no such real diagnoxis) and takes a long time to do anything. He has one speed, slow. He is actually the father of our 11 year old ds that we adopted at age 5 and now homeschool. His now ex-wife is bipolar and very adolescent acting even though she is a year older than he. Long story, but he became suicidal and was hospitalized. Then she couldn't cope with the baby "alone" and was hospitalized as well. DS then ended up in foster care system in Florida (we are in Iowa) and when he was 11 months old, my husband and I went to Florida and petitioned the court for custody. They gave us custody and we brought him home. In the subsequent 18 months she got pregnant again and had at least one affair. They got divorced. She remarried to a guy about 5 years younger and then had a third child. This husband died and she remarried again. This husband left her. In the meantime, she couldn't cope with the kids and whenever she wanted a break, she would drop the girls off at one of several cousin's and leave them for a month or two. Finally, they had had enough and called social services. So my oldest son now has permanent custody of his daughter, age 10 now, newly diagnosed ADHD. She was 7 at the time social services took custody and started kindergarten at that point. Since the time we had this son from age 11 months, she never managed to come and see him and we rarely heard from her. Our son was living in Indiana after Florida and has been here at least twice a year, but didn't feel he could care for him at that point. So we adopted him somewhat out of fear that his mother would convince some judge somewhere that she had got her act together and get custody.

My second son is now 35 years old and has LD. He and his wife now have a new baby, 6 weeks old.

Unfortunately, though all three sons have professed accepting the Lord as their savior, none of them are living it.

So that's the story of our family. My husband and I are in our 50s and dh is such a special man. These aren't even his kids, though he came into their life when the oldest was preadolescent and the youngest age 3. We are active as a family in our church and are doing our best to raise our son to be a servant of God. We keep the first three in prayer, though, haven't given up. I would like to say we have learned from our mistakes first time around, but we just make new ones,

Sometimes things just get a bit overwelming and I have to talk things out.

Hi Nancy,
Wow! What a story. Thanks for sharing!
You said, "I would like to say we have learned from our mistakes first time around, but we just make new ones." What you're doing with what you're faced with does not sound like mistakes. Sounds like grace to me. God bless you! Give yourself some of that grace as well.
Let's talk some more.
Christine